Frugal Living & Making Money

For just about everyone money is needed to live the lifestyle they want. I have some good outside the box ideas for anyone wanting to make or save money. That is why I am starting this new page dedicated to saving and making money.

The easiest way to have more money is to avoid spending the money you already have. Saving money is easier than making money. Money saved is money that doesn’t need to be earned, giving you more free time. Saved money is not subject to any additional taxes. I have nothing against spending money to buy a toy or have fun, but if you are working all day just to make the payment on your toys and luxuries that is not an enjoyable life in my opinion.

Most of the people visiting my site are lucky enough to live in the USA. There are hundreds of ways to make some money if you know where to look. Getting rich is harder, but making a living and having a good life is easy today compared to the life of our forefathers. A lot of people will see hard times, but there has never been a better era than the current for making a living by working for yourself. The prime means for doing such is the internet.

Just in my lifetime you had to be pretty well off to afford the luxury of a home computer. Nowadays you can get a good used computer for a days labor easily. Internet access is more expensive as its a recurring expense, but is easy to pay for with a little extra conventional work or by saving. With these two tools you can transition to real independence.

There are always excuses for failure, but if you truly work for your reasonable goal it can be achieved. There are plenty of ways to be working for yourself and pulling in a livable income. I will give you some steps to take to achieve your goal.

This page will be divided into two main categories:

Saving Money

Making Money

There will be several topics covered in each.

 

Ways To Reduce Spending:

Food:

 Lower your needs, no eating out, no prepared meals, get high quality low cost food from a local farmer or bought on sale, in bulk or all of the above. Cook from scratch, and grow your own food which is better than anything that can be bought anyway. Buy from a discount source such as Aldi, don’t buy name brand, read the ingredients and buy the best which usually is not name brand. Eat real food and you will be healthier saving money in the long run.

Growing your own food and canning give you better quality food at the lowest cost. You know how your food was handled and where it came from. You get a healthy activity to spend your time on. You learn a valuable skill and can also make money on the side selling your excess produce, seeds and plants.

Even someone living in the city with a small yard can grow a substantial amount of their own food. There are plenty of people that have provided good examples of how to do this.

Transportation:

 This is where I see a lot of people wasting money. A New or newer car is a luxury. If you have the money go ahead, I have no problems with luxuries. If you can afford the luxury of a new car you are most likely buying it with cash. I don’t know how many times I have seen someone who within several weeks of starting their new higher paying job buys a new or newer car. Often times they are barely making it paycheck to paycheck after they move to that bigger house and buy that new car. What is the point of that higher paying job if you throw your money out as fast as it comes in? That new or newer car bought on credit is a curse.

Why do people buy new cars? I think it is all about image, they want to look successful. Everyone should know that looks can be deceiving. Secondly they think an old car will not be dependable, or will break down more, so they would rather fork out thousands of dollars for a new car. All mechanical things will break down, even that new car. You can buy and maintain two used cars for a fraction of the cost of a new or newer car.  If you should have a breakdown you have a backup. The savings are worth it unless of course you are well off and want the luxury.

Never buy a car from a dealer, they are almost always overpriced. I would rather buy a car from an individual any day. A car salesman has honed his selling skills to the point where he can tell a lie without flinching. You may run into that with an individual as well but you stand a better chance of getting the whole story.

New cars are money holes, newer cars are still money holes. New cars are more expensive initially and for the life of the car. New cars are harder to work on, have more expensive insurance rates, taxes, parts and many have more expensive larger tires. It is also harder to find used parts for newer cars and harder to find a mechanic that can work on your car. Factory mechanics are expensive, many local mechanics don’t have the expensive computers to troubleshoot the newest cars. Currently cars in the early 90’s and late 80’s have the largest numbers in scrap yards, and are the easiest to find parts for.

New cars have no track record, unless they are a model that has been made for awhile you don’t know if the engine is a good engine or that the model is dependable. You don’t know the weaknesses of that car. You as the new car owner are the guinea pig who will find the lemons so the used car buyer can avoid them.

Used cars can be had at a fraction of the cost of a new car. You can find out which engines are good and the common problems if any. You will pay less for taxes, parts, insurance, mechanics, and usually tires. If you choose wisely you can get a used car that will last for a long time. Get a good model with parts availability and a good engine and drive train.

Buy a car with cash. When you buy with cash you don’t have to keep expensive full coverage insurance. I get good liability insurance with roadside assistance for just in case. I buy my insurance for a whole year and pay less for that year of coverage than for one month of full coverage on a new car.

I have bought several vehicles off craigslist including the one I am currently driving and the one before that. I drove my previous truck an 86 Mazda B2000 for five years before retiring it for a 92 extended cab Mazda B2200 for my growing family. I bought the B2000 for $700 cash. There are deals like that everywhere and Craigslist is a great place to start. I bought the 92 along with a second parts truck for $900.

I will drive several hundred miles for the right vehicle at the right price. Considering I save thousands of dollars a year by doing this that one day spent picking up the right vehicle is worth it. I have a diesel addiction and must travel to find a diesel vehicle at the right price as they are rare.

Get a vehicle with a manual tranny. Manuals are better than automatics for many reasons. Manuals are more adaptable, last longer and give you better economy. A clutch lasts about as long as an automatic tranny does and is a lot easier and less expensive to replace.

Don’t buy a truck as your daily driver unless you are using it everyday as a truck. Trucks get bad gas mileage and are more expensive to maintain. You would be better off buying an inexpensive old truck for the times you actually really need a big truck than to buy one as a daily driver. We use our Jetta diesel unless we need a truck then we take the Mazda. If the Mazda cannot handle it I bring out the one ton. My one ton only leaves its parking spot when I am literally doing tons of work, like hauling gravel or a car.

A small truck can save you money. I use my small Mazda truck for almost everything. It gets better mileage than any regular full size truck. My little truck hauls everything from hay to vehicles. A small truck can do most jobs that people have full size trucks for. It is a safe wager that my little truck hauls twice the amount of the average full size truck in a year, and it gets better mileage doing it.

There are two ways of using old cars. The first I will discuss is the method of buying it cheap and driving it until it drops. This can save a lot of money and if your really good you can actually profit from the eventual demise of your ride.

Find the best good car you can that doesn’t need any major work. It doesn’t matter what it looks like,  dents, rust and scratches are your friend. What really matters is how the car runs. There are plenty of them out there but you do have to look and act fast. Most of these cars sell within a day. I will call as soon as I can when I find a likely candidate and if it passes my initial phone questions I will go that day to buy it. I usually buy this style of vehicle for no more than $800, usually around $500 and I have got some deals for well under that.

If you are mechanically inclined you can really get the deals. There are plenty of cars with very minor problems that the owner just doesn’t know how to fix or has gotten a new car and doesn’t want to fix the old one. These can be picked up for almost nothing. I have bought several cars for the price of scrap or less and repaired them on the spot to drive home. An example is a Festiva I bought for under $350 and drove home. It had a bolt missing from the front caliper and it made a loud noise everytime you used the brakes when caliper would slap into the bracket holding it. That Festiva had new speakers and a cd player that cost more than I bought the car for. I bought new pads and hardware for the brakes and spent under $40. I drove that car for two years, and it paid for itself in fuel savings averaging 40 mpg.

When the drive it till it drops car has its first break down the price of the repair is carefully weighed against the price of another car. If it looses its fight for life I sell every good part off of it and crush the remainder. Here is where you can actually profit. I have actually bought cars several times and driven them for a year or so and then sold the parts for more than I bought the car for. When the good parts are gone, crush whats left.

The second method we call the standard. The way it works is that when an old car is well maintained it will last indefinitely. When a break down happens replace it with a lifetime guarantee part and plan on driving it for a long, long time. I have set my standards as 86-93 Mazda trucks and 84-92 VW Jetta’s. I have a 93 extended cab B2200 and my wife has a 91 Jetta turbo diesel. In the future I plan on dropping my standard engine the 1.6 VW diesel into my pickup. My former Mazda had an Isuzu diesel and I miss having a diesel. We will fix almost anything that happens to one of our drivers. When we find a reasonably priced parts vehicle for one of our standards we buy it. Anything that happens we have a spare part. This is a nice way to go and it will also save a fortune compared to how most people solve their transportation needs.

When it comes to engines I have done a complete 180. When I was younger I wanted the largest engine that could fit into my full size truck. I at least did use my truck as a truck, but I would have fared better with the indestructible 300 six my truck came with than the V8 I swapped it for. People are addicted to power and that has a direct affect on your wallet.

If your ego cannot stand driving an old beater then there is another way. A good classic car will do more for your ego than any modern vehicle. After all anyone can have that new car with credit, but not everyone can have that classic Mustang. Buying at the right price and condition a classic becomes more valuable. Which is going to get you noticed more, that classic or some new car that blends in with everything else? That classic is a major bargain compared to a new car. There are plenty of sharp old cars for a tenth of the price of the equivalent new car.

 

Luxuries

A big TV and cable are luxuries and will cost you money in more ways than one. I got rid of my TV in 2004, it made me lazy. A good show would come on and I wouldn’t get any work done. There are plenty of better things to do with your time than watch TV. When I met my wife it took some convincing to keep a satellite dish away from my house but I have succeeded. I did have to get a TV though.

Now that we have a family a TV does come in handy, and has helped my daughter in learning how to read. I do watch a good movie about once a week in the winter, but most things I watch are educational.

TV shows don’t matter, they are not real, not even reality TV. Sitting in front of a TV is wasting your life. You will have a better healthier life with less TV, and cable TV is why some people stay poor wasting their life away in front of the TV. Look around at how many people know more about actors than the people in their lives that actually matter. How sad is that?

Nic Nacs

If I buy something I try to buy it for life. Something is only expensive once if you buy it right. When I was younger I didn’t get this and would often try to work using cheap tools. A good tool or appliance should last for your lifetime. Do your research and get the best.

There are over priced items. Just because you bought the most expensive item out there doesn’t mean you bought the best, it probably means you paid too much. There is a good middle ground in most things.

Doing Things Yourself

If something breaks that is your chance to learn how to repair it. If I have an item break I will always try to repair it unless it was junk off the shelf. If you fail at least you probably learned something about the item, which will help you in the future.

When I was a kid my dad would bring home appliances and electronics for me to take apart. It wasn’t long before I learned how most things worked and I was soon repairing VCR’s and other small electronics when the problem was simple. That know how has served me well.

Most people seem to hire a pro to do any home or auto repair. Often times that pro is making more per hour than the person paying them. There is a place for hiring a pro, but it is a rare occasion. If you do the work yourself you know how the repair was done, and how to do it in the future. I don’t hire someone very often, as it seems like every time I do in the end I still have to fix the problem or the work wasn’t done the way I want it done, so whats the point?

 

Making Money

As I have already stated there are plenty of ways to make money, you just have to pay attention to find them. One thing I have learned is that almost everything is worth money. That junk car can be worth literally hundreds of dollars maybe thousands. Hey even dirt, rocks and manure is worth money.

When something of ours breaks down I will usually try to fix it. Often times the new parts cost almost as much as the item did when new. I will try to locate used parts for this reason. Ebay is a great source for some unusual parts that cannot be found anywhere else, or otherwise cannot be found at a reasonable prices elsewhere.

If I still fail to find the parts I will then remove any part that still works. Almost everything has parts that someone else would like for there widget or project. For example I had a a Shop Vac brand vacuum for cleaning my cars and such. I actually had two and both had the motors wear out. They were poorly made so I had no intention of repairing them. I took the hose, switch, wheels, and miscellaneous parts off and sold them on Ebay. I made about $20 after Ebay and Paypal fees, not bad for something I bought new for $35 and used for a couple years. This is one example of how I am able to work at home by saving and making money. There are plenty of other items that can be handled the same way. Just remember everything is worth money.

Ebay

Ebay has its flaws, but it is unique as a marketplace. I have an Ebay store and make 1/4 of my income through Ebay. I have been on Ebay for over a decade and am an Ebay powerseller and was a top rated seller before Ebay changed the rules as they do every half year or so. That is one of the draw backs to Ebay.

There is no better place to sell a widget than Ebay. As I have mentioned you can sell parts off something most people just throw away and in so doing recoup a parcel of the price you paid for it. That opens up whole new worlds of opportunity.

Most people start selling on Ebay by selling items they no longer use, just like an online yard sale. That’s a great place to start and it provides a low risk entry.

How can you get enough items to make money after you sell your personal items? All you have to know is how much items are worth on Ebay. When you know how much an item is worth you will know when you find it at a bargain price. I pick up items all over the place to resell on Ebay. Things to keep in mind are ease of shipping the item, risk of the sell and profit margin. Ebay is not free and charges a hefty commission on the items you sell. Paypal also takes their cut as well. Below is a link to a nice free online Ebay and Paypal fee calculator:

Ebay and Paypal seller fee calculator

Risk of the sale is the probability of problems with the item or buyer. If you are selling something on its last leg the buyer might have the item break and will not be pleased. Certain items also attract lower quality buyers that can cause you problems.

A good way to find the value of an item on Ebay is to research the item using the advanced search for completed items. I do this to find a good price to list the items I sell at a fixed price in my store. This is also a good feature to make sure you don’t bid too much for an item that is on Ebay.

 So where do you get more stuff, well there are tons of ways. I ran adds  in the past offering to buy cars and motorcycles for cash. I have 30 motorcycles waiting to be parted currently so I no longer advertise. Yard sales flea markets and swap meats attract me anyway so I keep my eyes open for items to resell along with my personal items. There is an endless supply.

Auctions are another place. A good auction is nice but I have tired of waiting all day at a bad auction for the auctioneer to get to the few items I am interested in, only to be outbid by someone who pays the same price as it sold for when the item was new. There are good auctions, and I have been to several, but lately they are the exception for me, so I no longer go to auctions frequently.

I am going to tell you about another source for items, dumpster diving:

Dumpster Diving:

Want something for nothing? Here is your chance to get it honestly. Can you make a living dumpster diving? Yes, you can make a good living digging in other peoples garbage. It might not sound great, but it is highly addictive. The first time you find treasure for free you may find yourself addicted to dumpster diving.

Really, you can make a living dumpster diving? Yes, not only can you make a living you can actually make a good living. I am too busy and have too many irons in the fire to be a professional dumpster diver, but I do go when I have nothing more pressing. I tried to do a two week test to see how much money could actually be made dumpster diving. Unfortunately my other jobs took priority and I could not carry the test to completion. On the three days I did go however I  proved it as a viable option.

So how much money? Hundreds of dollars in profit a week easily. On my days dumpster diving I never came home with under $200 worth of stuff in my truck. One night it easily topped $500. Sounds crazy doesn’t it? Why are people so wasteful? I don’t know and will never understand, but why not profit from it.

My average haul was several hundred dollars in actual resell value for one evening. That is for an average of four hours of dumpster diving which will fill my truck. You will spend more time reselling the treasure than collecting it. I would become a professional dumpster diver any day versus working at a dead end job for someone else.

So what did I find that was worth so much money? I will be honest, I cheated. I knew where to go through experience. This is something that you have to dive in and learn for yourself. I hit the right dumpsters at the right time. My most valuable single find of the three nights was a theatre style popcorn cart new in the box. A store return that was tossed. Everything was there and it was never used, it cost $250 new. It was an overpriced store so the value to me was $100, an easy sell price. I also had a literal truck load of books one night. You name it someone will throw it away.

Remember how I said everything has value. If you want to make a living as a professional dumpster diver you have to learn that everything has a value. As I dig through a dumpster I will bring home stuff that is broken, but may have some good parts. If I run into something that is too rough to have good parts but has a cord I cut the cord for copper which is currently going for a good price.

If it has pieces that come off there is a good chance that someone out there has lost or broken that piece so do them a favor and sell it to them. If I have a bad night and have room in my truck I will bring home low value items like scrap metal, it is rare to have a night that bad though.

The very worst thing about dumpster diving is the embarrassment factor. There are not many things more embarrassing than getting caught red handed digging through someones refuse. I am highly embarrassed when caught and try to avoid such situations. There really isn’t anything wrong with dumpster diving, but society looks down at it when it is actually a good thing. Instead of the item taking up space in a toxic landfill it is getting another lease at life. You would think everyone would be happy.

The second worse thing is that sometimes people throw away trash. Believe it or not I have opened some dumpsters and had to make a hasty retreat. There is plenty of hunting ground to worry about working with gross dumpsters.

Where are the best spots? The very best refuse usually ends up in those compactors. I have seen what the likes of Walmart and other big retailers toss and it is amazing. Since you cannot access compactors you will have to go elsewhere. I have had the best luck in commercial areas. Nice alleys to drive right up to big dumpsters that are sometimes full of brand new items. Sadly some of the best dumpsters to hit are Salvation Army and Goodwill Dumpsters. When I saw what they threw away it actually made me mad. I have donated stuff to the Salvation Army for years and it seems the best items are thrown away. Why? They could do so much good by giving these items away for free. At least the cream of the crop is left for the brave few willing to dive in. There is a Salvation Army close to my home that throws away so much I could literally make a living from their trash alone. Remember the literal truck load of books? Guess where it came from. I have also found ten brand new basketballs, a case of brand new battery chargers that sell for $15 each and more from this dumpster. It is really unbelievable.

My rules for dumpster diving are three fold. Leave it cleaner than you found it, Don’t make a scene, and don’t trespass. In my area there is nothing illegal about dumpster diving. A few cities are fools and make it a crime. Also some cops will tell you it is illegal when it is not, they don’t want to be bothered by you.

Dumpster diving is an addiction I got from my dad. In all the years I have dumpster dived I have had one bad run in with cops. I have a clean record, and I have also worked with law enforcement in my former jobs for the State of Missouri so I usually have no problems with cops. That didn’t save me one time, but that run in stands as the rare exception. I wasn’t arrested or ticketed but did get frisked and questioned.

Because of the incident with the cops above I don’t recommend dumpster diving to anyone with a felony or a bad criminal record. No need to put yourself in a possibly bad situation. If you are above suspicion you should have nothing to worry about. Keep in mind I have had many encounters with law enforcement while dumpster diving and never had a problem before that night.

Salvage/Scrap

Jade Standing on my 63 Ford Loaded with a 84 Rabbit
Jade Standing on my 63 Ford Loaded with a 84 Rabbit

If its metal it is worth money. When I was dirt poor I use to drive for a couple miles then walk the roadside back a mile or so, switch sides and return to my truck with the aluminum cans I found in the ditch. I would do this several times until I found enough cans. When I got to town the aluminum I had collected would usually pay or come close to paying for the trip to town. I was obviously very poor, but didn’t let that stop me from going to town. If I awoke tomorrow morning with nothing, my empire would be rebuilt with money from scrap. It is one of the best ways to earn money without the need for much investment.

What’s bad is aluminum is the same price today as it was when I was a kid. So considering our currencies constant devaluation the price for aluminum is lower today than in the past. Metal prices go up and down just like stocks, and I like to time my sells for when the prices go up. I sort all my metal and wait for the right price or a need for some money. The best source for scrap metals is junk cars. At a minimum

A badly abused 95 Aspire, Still worth $100's in parts.
A badly abused 95 Aspire, Still worth $100’s in parts.

you can move smaller cars with a car dolly or even a friend and a chain, but to really make some money I would go with a full size truck and a trailer. I have hauled hundreds of cars with my old truck and a flatbed gooseneck trailer.

A pretty well stripped 84 VW Rabbit, the aluminum head and intake were corroded and I decided to leave them (too much work to remove)
A pretty well stripped 84 VW Rabbit, the aluminum head and intake were corroded and I decided to leave them (too much work to remove)

Vehicles will give you steel, copper and aluminum as well as some other metals. But the best money is in the parts to be resold. I will strip every usable part off a vehicle for resell. I strip the wiring harness out and any aluminum parts. Many scrap yards will give more money for dirty cast aluminum like cylinder heads and other aluminum parts. Your local scrap yards will determine how you handle your scrap.

$100's in parts for a couple hours of work
$100’s in parts for a couple hours of work
Good door latch and handle removed, door screwed closed so car could be filled with metal scrap.
Good door latch and handle removed, door screwed closed so car could be filled with metal scrap.

When I strip a vehicle the only thing left is the body, frame and junk parts. Anything more valuable than shred steel comes off unless the removal is more work than the value gained. I then fill the interior of the car with anything metal. I have a pile of scrap steel just for filling cars before crushing. I want to have as much weight in steel as that vehicle can hold. Why not make the trip worth as much as possible?

Ready to Crush
Ready to Crush

Radiators are usually aluminum on most newer vehicles, older brass radiators are worth a lot more. It is worth your time to remove a radiator. Like all higher value metal I stockpile it until the price is up.

84 Rabbit with good parts stripped from interior
84 Rabbit with good parts stripped from interior

Wheels of aluminum or magnesium alloy are worth more than scrap steel and should be removed. Nice sets of wheels can be resold for a pretty penny. I have sold sets of nice wheels for the price I bought the entire vehicle for. Good tires can be resold as well.

Vehicle Wiring Harness
Vehicle Wiring Harness

Wiring can be sold with the insulation on it but the best price is for clean copper with no insulation. Time and effort should be weighed. I strip all the thicker gauges of wiring I get from vehicles, the thinner wiring I sell with the insulation. If the vehicle you are scrapping has a good following a good complete wiring harness can be sold for much more than its scrap value.

95 Aspire Interior Before Stripping
95 Aspire Interior Before Stripping
A Stripped Interior of a 95 Aspire
A Stripped Interior of a 95 Aspire

Catalytic converters are worth removing and certain styles can be pretty valuable. A torch is very handy for scrapping and can cut a converter out in a minute, a sawzall will also work with a little more effort. Many view the catalytic converters as a more valuable part, but many usable parts of a vehicle can be resold for more profit.

Every scrap yard varies in what they buy and policies on how the metals are to be prepared, so spend some time doing your homework.

Rental Property / Slum Lord

I think many people go about getting into rental property the wrong way. There is a lot of money to be made in rental property, and getting into it isn’t as hard as you might think.

Many people get into rental property by renting their old house after they get a new place. This is how I started, and it is a good way to start, especially if the old property is paid for. My old property more than makes the payment for my new place. That’s a great way to build wealth.

The wrong way to start is buying a property that cannot even make its own payment, or just barely does. This is how a lot of people try to start and then claim there is no money in rental property. While it is still a good investment as you will eventually own the property there are better ways to make money.

I don’t even consider rental property that will not pay for itself within fifteen years. For my personal holdings that number is eight years. For me to consider a property it must make its own loan payment and have enough money beyond that to make it worth my time.

Here is where being a slum lord has its advantages. A real slum lord lets their property be run into the ground, and I am not advising that. A slum lord comes closest to what I am advocating though. To buy a property with a high rate of return for the purchase price.

In my area you could buy a nice middle income house for $30,000 and rent it for $450, or you could buy an old trailer for $10,000 and rent it for $300. If you bought three of those trailers you would be spending $30,000 to purchase them and making $900 for the same price as one nicer property. Of course with three properties there is more to maintain and more possibility of problems, but it is the way to make more money.

Custom Baling

You might think this is solely the realm of the big boys. But there is a hefty profit to be made by the right individual that isn’t afraid of an honest days hard work. And there is no need to own any land of your own besides a place to park your equipment.

In every state there are small tracts of land that have nice fields that sit idle. From city people living in the country to someone who doesn’t use all their land. Even larger operations might not cut a field they consider more of a bother to bale than its worth. Picking up the right fields to bale can be very profitable.

To make this work you will have to have some cash to get the equipment necessary. At the minimum you will need a small tractor, mower, rake and a baler. There is more profit in square bales and the investment is less but they are more work. They are a perfect fit for someone picking up the small fields the big operations don’t bother with.

The initial investment in equipment will add up to around $3500 or less if you look for the deals. I spent a lot less on my equipment by looking for good deals. Not counting my tractor I was able to pick up everything I needed to bale in less than a couple months. Craigslist and Ebay are great places to find used equipment, and if you use the website IFTTT to setup recipes to search Craigslist it is just a matter of waiting until the right equipment is listed.

The next step is to find the fields. In my area there are people giving hay away to anyone who wants to cut it. They like the look of a nice clean field after it is baled, and it saves them money by not having to pay someone to cut it. Square bales can go for $3-$6 in my area, sometimes more. Yield will really vary but a good field will produce enough hay to make it well worth your time. Keeping track of expenses you will easily make a good living and stay in good shape.

An ideal setup would include a way to move your tractor and equipment to distant fields to take advantage of the opportunities as they come up. Roading your tractor without a truck and tractor limits your range. If you can get to them there is an endless supply of fields that can be baled on shares or custom baled with the owner paying you per bale.

The same thing can be done with round bales as well. While not as profitable they take less physical work. Round bales have the advantage of being more weather resistant but require more expensive and larger equipment and the return on investment isn’t as fast. They do require a lot less physical labor and the hay can be put up much faster.

 


2 thoughts on “Frugal Living & Making Money”

  1. What kind of tractor and baling equipment do you need? I’ve been told you can’t hay with small tractors. For $3500, you won’t find a worthy larger tractor. Would appreciate specifics for tractor and implements, as hay cutting/baling on other people’s small tracts is something I’d like to pursue.

    1. I started with my 8N, it is easier and nicer with bigger tractors and live PTO is nice but they made hay back in the day with the smaller tractors Americans just got spoiled.

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